BL4 Theorycrafting Resource Hub

Welcome to Girthquake's Theoretical Theory Crafting!

Have you ever tuned into your favorite Borderlands streamer or YouTuber and wondered what in the hell they're saying? Read a Reddit comment that made you wonder if you were sane? Were you interested none the less? Well then this guide is for you.

The goal of this guide is to help you understand high end Borderlands content better and get the most out of your own build by being able to use resources to the fullest.

• Trusted Community Resources
• Community Terms
• Damage Formulas
• Basic Synergies
• Simple Approaches to Optimizations

These are channels that are dedicated to informing their viewers beyond the basics and will go out of their way to confirm that the information being presented is accurate.

Girthquake / Mobalytics Profile - my channel is dedicated to Amon builds and general gear interactions.

Ratore / Mobalytics Profile - Ratore's channel covers end game Vex builds and showcases.

LazyData / Mobalytics Profile - Lazy covers all 4 vault hunters and general interactions.

Ancient Rune / Mobalytics Profile - Rune's channel focuses on Amon but covers a wide array of Vault Hunter information.

JoeForLong / Mobalytics Profile - Joe dives deep into Tediore chucking mechanics and items on his Rafa builds.

EpicNNG / Mobalytics Profile - Epic's channel covers the goings on the Borderlands world along with technical discoveries and Drop Rate info.

Nepta / Mobalytics Profile- Nepta specifies in highlighting unintended interactions that can contribute to optimizations and interesting damage sources

GENERAL DAMAGE FORMULA - Ratore

Vault Hunter Specific Guides

AMON DAMAGE FORMULA - Girthquake

HARLOWE DAMAGE FORMULA - WIP

RAFA DAMAGE FORMULA - WIP

VEX DAMAGE FORMULA - Ratore

General Damage and Mechanics Guides

BL4 GEAROLOGY: GUNS AND GEAR EXPLAINED - Ratore

CRITS AND CRIT CHANCE GUIDE - Ratore

STATUS EFFECT MECHANICS GUIDE - Girthquake

DOUBLE DIPPING EXPLAINED - Ancient Rune

TORGUE STICKY MECHANICS - Prismatic

Drop Rates

LEGENDARY DROP RATES - EpicNNG

PEARL DROP RATES - EpicNNG

Harlowe TIME TRIALS ARE LIVE!! Amon

Rafa Time Trial Submission Form

Time Trials Leaderboard Vex

• If you'd like to prove your build's worth and see how it fares among the fastest players in Borderlands 4 then you're in the right place!

• Vault Missions and Bloomreaper runs are currently on the Leaderboard

• To submit a run READ THE RULES before recording. Once complete simply upload the video to a public platform and submit your run on the submission form. Someone on the TTR team will review when available.

Invite to The Soup Kitchen Discord

Invite to LazyData's Discord

wrw713's World Record Bloomreaper run!

LazyData's Sniper Rafa Vault Runs!

Borderlands 4 Save Editing is a complicated beast. Luckily Mattmab was up to the task of creating an editor. Through Matt and much more of the community's effort Bl4 Save Editor - Online Save File Editor for BL4 | Item Editor - is up and running.

The editor is a WIP, please be patient when using it and feel free to report any bugs.

FAQ

• How do I even begin?
• • You'll need the ID of the folder that your saves are in so you can encrypt them for your game. That's a long number that the folder is named, 17 digits on Steam (also your Steam ID)
  • If the save wasn't yours to begin with, you'll also need the donor's Steam ID
  • Most creators give out .txt or .yaml files so you don't need to worry about that
• What can it do?
• • Create or edit weapons and gear
  • Finish missions, collections, and achievements
  • Add currency and SDUs
• How do I know what I make is legit?
• • The website also has a "legit check" function.
• Is it hard?
• • No, it's actually very easy to use
  • The hardest part is learning all of Gearbox's arbitrary rules for guns themselves
  • Matt's site helps with that too
• How do I get the save into the game?
• • Press "encrypt save"
  • If you were editing one of your own saves back up the old one in a separate folder
  • Paste the new edited .sav file in the folder
  • Your saves must be numbers for the game to read them. IE: 67.sav is valid, Amon.sav is NOT

Q: WILL I GET BANNED?
A: NO!!!! YOU WILL NOT GET BANNED

I am aware of the dark cloud surrounding 2k in regard to modding and the TOS. I assure you that was nothing more than a social media grifter attempting to cash in on drama. I save edit and use a trainer almost daily, it's fine. Gearbox has always been okay with modding as long as it makes no attempt at undermining DLCs. We treat that rule as gospel so as not to draw the corporate Eye of Sauron.

I repeat:

YOU WILL NOT GET BANNED FOR SAVE EDITING OR MODDING

Resources

Serialization tool by Nicnl and InflamedSebi

Everything to do with Item parts and associated effects.

Huge thank you to Matt, Prismatic, the members of The Soup Kitchen, and members of the validation team for going out of their way so the community could have a resource that makes sense of this MASSIVE parts system.

• "Damage Formula"
• • "A damage formula, in this context, is a visual representation of the calculations done in-game to accurately display your damage dealt." - General Damage Guide

• "Soup"
• • A community term used to describe the additive bucket your On Hit buffs will fall into.
  • Amp, On Shot Damage, Firewall, and Daedalus Mode Switch are NOT soup.
  • Daredevil and Runner are described as multiplicative but actually only apply to that Soup passive specifically.

• "Critical Hit" or "Crit"
• • Usually defined simply as a headshot - Borderlands 4 takes that a step further and allows for chance-based crits as well, thus any damage can become a crit with a proper build.

• "TRUE Crit"
• • A hit that lands on the weak spot of the enemy, usually a headshot. All critical bonuses are applied normally. Sometimes also defined as a "weak point crit".

• "FAKE Crit"
• • A crit achieved through use of a crit chance skill or passive.

• "Kinetic"
• • Any damage instance with no element is considered "kinetic"
  • While a common phrase in gaming, was never previously used in BL

• "Gear Crit"
• • This refers to crit bonuses you get on your weapon, class mod, enhancements, and some firmware.
  • Fake Crits on bullets and attached bonus damage get your Gear Crit bonuses but Fake Crits on Action Skills, Skill Damage instances, DOTs, and Grenades do not.

• "Crit Skill"
• • This refers to the crit bonuses from your skill tree. These bonuses get used TWICE. So in the simplified formula we simply place them in parenthesis with a 2X next to them. 15% Skill Crit = 30% crit damage in the formula.

• "Bonus Damage"
• • Bonus Damage refers to an instance of damage that is delivered in parallel to the main instance
  • Simply put a 2nd damage tick will accompany the main bit (if they match elements the ticks will combine)

• "Damage Over Time or DOT" aka STATUS EFFECT
• • DOT refers to the (usually) elemental effect you apply that will tick away on the enemy for an extended period of time. Lighting an enemy on fire or irradiating them would be an example of a DOT or Status Effect.

• "Double Dip"
• • Double Dip refers to when a damage instance uses something in your formula TWICE. The phrasing will almost always be something along the lines of "XX% of Damage Dealt" An example of a Double Dip would be Tail of the Comet.
  • The value gets used twice since a 2nd instance of damage is being created with a base damage derived from "Damage Dealt"

• "Damage Dealt"
• • A simple term in concept - this term is used to define the damage you deal to an enemy AFTER your entire formula has been accounted for. Damage Dealt will take the place of Card on a double dip.
  • In conversation can be replaced with "impact damage"

• "Double Dippable"
• • This describes any passive that can be used in a Double Dipping formula. This simply means that passive can be used twice in a row - effectively squaring its value.
  • 30% "Double Dippable" damage is actually a 69% increase to the Damage instance that is doing the Double Dipping.

• "On Shot Damage"
• • On Shot Damage is an umbrella term used to describe a section of the damage formula
  • The buff is applied WHEN YOU SHOOT as opposed to On Hit like Soup buffs are
  • On Shot covers all Enhancement Gun Damage, most Legendary Effects, and some skills in Harlowe and Vex's trees

• "On Hit Damage"
• • This is the category referred to as Soup and makes up a majority of Skills and Passives
  • Most buffs simply add together in the On Hit Soup
  • Crit buffs are also on hit

• "Debuff"
• • This term describes the effect when you increase the damage enemy takes. At it simplest it can be described as reducing their defenses. Debuffs are Soup.

Concept of Optimization:

When Theorycrafters speak of optimal this or optimize that they are referring the how efficiently their build is accomplishing it's goal and how potent the end results are. A well optimized build will hit higher peaks with the same Gear inputs as a poorly put together set up. This seems obvious at a glance but the effect this can have on your Damage output is not.

Applying a buff to a skill that provides the bulk of your damage specifically is the first obvious goal in optimizing your build. However applying ALL of your skills and resources to the same type of buffs may not always be the best option, but depending on the options you have available it may be your only choice? No 2 Vault Hunters are identical nor are any 2 situations in combat, so its up to you to choose the most optimal path to your goal.

Before you can even begin to optimize a build you must understand this:

THERE IS NO "BEST"

What that means is that without a clear definition of a goal the build cannot be the "Best." If you attempt to ask a Theorycrafter what the best build you'll almost always be met with "Best at what?"

There is a "Fastest Mobbing Build for this VH" or a "Highest Damage Bossing Build for that VH" or even a "Who is the best user of this gun specifically", the specifics do not matter in regards to what you are defining the goal of as long as there is a clear metric to use in the comparison.

If my definition of the "Strongest Amon build" is the build that hits the highest number does that make the fast mobbing Amon build weaker? No. They have different goals and approaches.

If your definition of a strong build is one that deals 50 million damage quickly, is that stronger than my build that deals 10 Billion a bit slower? No. They have different styles and outcomes.

Simply attempting to label something as "Best" will never work since no single build does ALL aspects of the game better than ALL other builds do. Mobbing set ups will almost always fall behind for single target damage and vice versa for bossing builds in mobbing.

Bad Habits To Break:

• Thinking that the Build will do everything for you
• • Unless its an AFK build specifically player input is also important. Learning WHY the build works is crucial in making it perform the way you see clips of.
  • Skill is a factor. Landing headshots, timing your reloads, being aware of your HUD, and remembering spawns all contribute to how the build flows.
  • Positioning is important in any build, even AFK builds sometimes demand player positioning. Be aware of WHERE you are for the fights you're building for.
• Hyper focusing on the word "Damage" for your Damage
• • Just because a skill doesn't literally say it buffs damage doesn't mean it wont affect your DPS
  • Reload Speed, Accuracy, Mag Size, Radius, and even Swap Speed are all indirect bumps to your overall output
  • Spending less time reloading or missing translates to more time dealing damage
  • Fire Rate is a direct increase to your DPS when using most weapons. In a game so short on fresh multipliers Fire Rate can be hugely impactful to automatic weapons
  • Increasing the chances of the damage instance occurring is a direct increase to up front DPS
• Ignoring QOL aspects of the Build
• • Buffs such as Movement Speed, Action Skill Cooldown or Action Skill Duration can have similar effects on the total output of the build as well
  • Accuracy and Handling can make the build feel better to play which will also translate to better performance by the player
  • A build's strength doesn't matter beyond a tech demo if it feels terrible to play
• Diminishing the value of Buffs
• • Oversaturating one section of your damage formula with a ton of the same kinds of buffs will quickly turn into a waste of input
  • If you have 500% Gun Damage from your skill tree then the additional 30% you get from a Class Mod passive is inconsequential. A Fire Rate, Reload Speed, or Mag Size buff would serve you MUCH better at that point
  • This concept applies all over. Buffs of the same kind will add together so as you add more and more the total impact will be less and less.
  • This is especially important in Borderlands 4 since most buffs are soup and add together despite being different names and passive.
• Leaning too heavily on the strength of Gear
• • Its very normal for a build to operate better with the assistance of a passives.
  • Sometimes certain specific passives are even needed for QOL or logistics. Duration or Radius can sometimes be massively beneficial since they're not common buffs elsewhere
  • However getting 1 extra damage passive on your gear will not suddenly make your build out of this world powerful.

Good Habits To Get Into:

• Setting a specific goal for the build
• • If you don't have a specific target to work for your build will lack direction
  • Without direction its impossible to determine how impactful certain aspects of the build will be
  • With a defined goal you know that one type of passive will or wont assist you
  • Shedding aspects of the set up that don't contribute to your goal can allow you to allocate those resources to the goal, further increasing it's potency
• Acknowledging different scenarios and preparing
• • Determining the course of action when faced with the builds weak spot can be a huge factor in how effective it is overall
  • Some strategies will involve brute forcing with a mechanic that is strong enough to deal with bad element matching
  • A build that relies on Double or even Triple Dipping cannot lean so heavily though, since it will Double or Triple Dip that bad element match too
  • Sometimes allocating resources to a back up plan in the build ends up being more optimal than full investment
• Filling in spots with a resource you don't have access to anywhere else
• • Sometimes the easiest way to make a decision is by asking "Can I get this anywhere else?"
  • If an item's role can be filled by your skill tree or a different passive then it is easy to sacrifice
  • Extra instances of damage or actual events occurring while you play are typically far more impactful than small values
  • Something like a Watts 4 Dinner adding source adopting bonus damage can be crucial to proccing RNG based skills in some builds, so the shield's role in your build is not damage, its procs. Which translates to damage indirectly.
• Thinking outside the box of "Direct" damage
• • While it sure is entertaining, utterly melting every single enemy you come across with bullets is not a fast method of clearing
  • Finding methods to "spread the love" and kill multiple enemies at once will clear much faster than taking the time and shooting each one
  • Jakobs ricochets, Torgue Radius, Tediore Digi Dividers, Transfuser DOTs - these are all examples of methods you can apply to your build to clear faster. The damage will spread farther and do it faster than you could ever do so manually
  • Strong Status Effects allow you to ignore an enemy who has 20% heath left but was just lit on fire
  • Aggro draw can keep an enemy occupied long enough for you to do a necessary rain dance and buff your own damage up

Build Synergies

Using skills and gear that synergize with your build will produce better results than brute forcing damage through stats. The nature of this formula makes that felt the most on our guns. Often times knowing the behavior of a specific weapon can allow you take advantage of something more so than simply having a large value to apply to it. This is often due to extra hits or damage instances rather than a single number becoming larger. The diminishing value of stat buffs in this formula means that extra instances that behave, for all intents and purposes, as a fresh mult are extremely potent.

Fire Rate, Radius, and Magazine Regen are the easiest examples to point to, despite none of them directly increasing damage in anyway, they all have drastic effects on output.

Bossing VS Mobbing Guns / DPS VS 1 Shots

Since most guns will all receive the same kinds of buffs in your formula paying attention to the characteristics of your weapon is how you determine if its better used for Mobbing or Bossing.

A Wombo Combo is an excellent Mobbing Weapon but outside of Harlowe's Neutron Capture builds it falls behind many other Bossing Weapons. That's because its output simply doesn't synergize well with boss health bars. Its damage is delivered over a longer period of time, repkit amp is almost useless, misses can hurt, and it makes it harder to deal your damage within the timed window of debuffs and buffs you apply.

Whereas 1 shot weapon such as a Spread Launcher can get the full benefit of your entire build shoved into the health bar all at once. The Spread Launcher is dealing 100% of its damage in that one up front shot, so you're getting the most out of things like pre stacked debuffs and Repkit Amp.

Use this example to help visualize, say you go against a boss that had 200 health

Gun 1 deals 20 damage at a fire rate of 1/sec mag size 1, reload speed of 4 seconds

Gun 2 deals 5 damage at a fire rate of 4/sec mag size 40, reload speed of 2 seconds

• You have an Amp shield equipped that for the sake of comparison again AND IN FAVOR of the DPS weapon we'll assume you're getting 100% amp on each shot. Maybe you have a Teen Witch on, taking your impact damage from 20 to 40 and 5 to 10
• Your build brings to the table a total of 100% soup damage buffs to the gun, this takes your impact damage from 40 to 80 and 10 to 20
• Now you've used a Repkit Amp of 200% - this Amp cannot be refreshed without stopping shooting. This means it will only apply to the first shot. This takes your impact damage from 80 to 160 and 20 to 40 on the first shot only
• Assume you've landed a crit and that impact damage on Gun 1's first shot is 240 and the impact on Gun 2's first shot is 60

Gun 1 Time To Kill:

• Shot 1: 240 Damage - boss dead, no other stats matter since damage was all you needed.

240 DPS

Gun 2 Time to Kill:

• Shot 1: 60 Damage
• Shot 2: 30 Damage
• Shot 3: 30 Damage
• Shot 4: 30 Damage @ 1 second
• Shot 5: 30 Damage
• Shot 6: 30 Damage - Boss dead, total of 210 damage @ 1.5 seconds

140 DPS

This example is not declaring what the best bossing gun is - its highlighting how the characteristics in a build can play out in a different way based on how the gun is applying it's damage. The large mult that is provided by by Repkit Amp means Bossing META leans heavily towards high damage shots.

THAT DOES NOT MEAN DPS IS NOT AN OPTION FOR BOSSING

If your load out does NOT have Amp in it and instead has invested in, ROF & Reload Speed on top of your Gun Damage this situation changes drastically

We've removed Repkit Amp and replaced it with +30% ROF and +30% Reload Speed

Gun 1 Time To Kill:

• Shot 1: 120 Damage
• Reload: 3.07 seconds
• Shot 2: 120 Damage - Boss dead, total of 240 damage @ 3.3 seconds ~

72 DPS

Gun 2 Time to Kill:

• Shot 1: 30 Damage
• Shot 2: 30 Damage
• Shot 3: 30 Damage
• Shot 4: 30 Damage
• Shot 5: 30 Damage @ 1 second
• Shot 6: 30 Damage
• Shot 7: 30 Damage - Boss dead, total of 210 damage @ 1.4 seconds ~

150 DPS

So is it a bossing gun or not?

The build has turned the ROF weapon into a Bossing weapon at the expense of ammo consumption. There are no builds that simply avoid any sort of trade off. While the High ROF weapon has a lower peak kill than the 1 shot, if your build is focused on High ROF weapons it shows that it is more than capable of bossing.

The other aspect to remember is that bossing isn't the only activity in this game. You can shove all the upfront damage you want in your build but it means nothing if the 2nd mob you run into puts you in the dirt. If the boss has 200 health it's a safe bet that the mobs are substantially weaker, IE can be killed quickly by the lower damage weapon as well. If Gun 2 can kill a trash mob in 2 shots but has a base mag size of 40 that means that weapons come equipped to kill 20 enemies at base ROF of 4/sec in 10 seconds.

Gun 1 would take roughly 80 seconds to kill the same number of enemies since each shot must be reloaded.

Utility Weapons

While most cases typically involve using a gun for direct damage there are some instances where a weapon is more inclines to enabling the rest of the build. Sometimes the biggest damage or the easiest kill will come from sacrificing the opening few seconds to prepping your other weapons with utility.

Triggering / Proccing Effects

• Sometimes a weapon may be helpful because of the type of damage it does or how its delivered.
• • Some Examples:
  • A Cryo / Fire Mantra can be used to activate both Executioner and Freezer Burn on Amon with 1 bullet
  • A high pellet count or lingering weapons can be used stack Riddle You This on any character
  • A Maliwan weapon can be used to transfer DOTs with Transfuser on any character
  • A Hot Slugger can be used to easily set off Firepot stickies due to its fast reload
• Slippy or Mantra are used on builds to trigger anything that needs melee damage dealt

Debuffs

• Debuffs are treated the same as All Damage Dealt in the formula and apply to everything in it. Any formula that is a Double Dip present (Bleed, Tail of the Comet, Neutron Capture) will appreciate the debuff soup provided since it will get used at each step of the way.
• • Ripper Snipers with Target Marker
  • Jakobs Pistols with Vial Launcher
  • Whiskey Foxtrot with shrapnel cannon

Gun Splash

• Gun Splash Damage on enhancements is funny. Its "On Shot Soup". Yes, that's a contradiction, I know.
• Gun Splash passives on your enhancement specifically check to see if the gun in hand is splash. If it is the passive will apply its soup to almost all damage you deal, including most skill damage and DOTs.
• The number of things that Gun Splash doesn't work on seems to be arbitrary, a mistake, or some other bug. Each instance must be confirmed.
• Because of this holding a Splash Damage dealing weapon while running an Action Skill or DOT build can act as a Stat Stick and provide what is more or less "All Damage Dealt"
• Gun Splash and Specific Gun Splash on the same enhancement can bug out and stop working. At the best it works with jank input from you, typically you'll have 1 dead passive, and sometimes neither works. It's advised to NOT run 2 different gun splash passives on 1 enhancement

Maliwan DOT Enhancements

• 3 out of 4 enhancements have uses that wouldn't be apparent at first
• These uses all have excellent applications in Non - Gun Builds, so much so that you can assume that an Amon Action Skill or Melee build will have one equipped.
• Transfuser
• • Transfers your Gun's DOT if the enemy dies with a matching element DOT on them
  • Meaning holding the highest damage matching DOT Stellium you can manage will increase clear speed
• Synthesizer
• • The DOT buff applies to all DOTs while a Maliwan gun is in your hands
• Mixologist
• • Applies to ALL gun damage you deal, including Firepots, Peacebreaker cannons, and other gun sources