Q&A: Patch 9.17’s Tier List
Every patch, our experts curate a predictive tier list for climbing solo queue. We created this Q&A series to address the most common questions for each individual tier list, this one is for Patch 9.17. If you’d like your question to be answered, leave a comment in our tier list article, in our Youtube video’s comments, or send us a message in our Discord.
We don’t answer every question but we do read all of them so you always have a chance! Note that some answers within this article may be slightly altered for readability.
If you want to know the best champs to climb with this patch, here’s our LoL tier list for Patch 9.17. If you want to know what our experts thought of the patch as a whole, check out our 9.17 Patch Breakdown.
1. Why is support Nautilus only A-tier and not S-tier?
2. How is Veigar great when he his bad matchups are popular?
3. Why isn’t Aatrox in the low ELO top list?
4. Why is Shen considered A-tier?
5. Does Ryze really not belong on either list?
Questions and Answers
1. “I still don’t get why Nautilus support is only A tier in your opinion since he only needs to land a hook to perma-CC someone and boy do that ultimate carry teamfights. He’s a durable kill lane tank with a strong all-in who works well with every ADC, he should be S IMO.” – Stefan Ene (Youtube)
- Nautilus is an A+ champion and as you mentioned, he has a lot going for him and is easy to execute. Up until the recent patch he had been hovering around 50 percent win rate though for quite a number of patches. Interestingly enough, his win rate suddenly jumped up by 1.5 percent on the most recent patch without any direct buffs to the champion.
- This could be due to matchup reasons where Zyra, Thresh, Pyke, and Lux are all increasing in popularity and he wins winning matchups into them but it is pretty puzzling. If he is able to sustain this win rate and isn’t just a half patch cycle win rate variance we will strongly consider putting him up to S tier.
- I should mention that judging a champion solely on their kit and not the numbers behind that kit can make any champion seem good. For example, support TF is broken in theory. He has target CC on a low CD, poke, great roaming potential and can peel easily peel for his ADC. Then you remember that none of that matters since his targeted CC is short-ranged then gets all-ined and dies instantly or that his poke is actually pretty bad in terms of base damage.
- So when judging a champ like Nautilus remember to incorporate not just what his kit does, but also the numbers and win rates behind them.
2. “How is Veigar great when every mid laner is a Fizz, Katarina, Yasuo or Zed ?” – Hatake Kakashi (Youtube)
- Right at the start, we’d like to mention that Veigar is actually considered a counter pick to Yasuo by Apdo. Moriarty also shares that opinion.
- That aside, the main idea here is how can he do so well in a meta with a lot of assassins when he isn’t strong versus them in lane?
- It’s mostly due to how he can stall out games and outscale them. It’s true that he loses to them in terms of pressure in lane and can get solo killed by things like Fizz or Zed but he outscales them and performs better in teamfights than them.
- At higher levels he isn’t given the time to do this hence why he doesn’t show up higher on that list but at lower levels of play where the assassins players struggle to close out games and play for objectives, he tends to be able to stall the game and then cage the assassins who bullied him early game and outplay them with R.
- So TLDR, at lower ELOs, Veigar can stall out a game and outscale assassins during teamfight phase since assassin players tend to have trouble closing out games where they don’t snow ball hard.
3. “Why isn’t Aatrox in the low ELO top tier list? I basically one-trick him top now in Gold 3 and I’ve had a great time climbing.” – thomase (Discord)
- The reason why Aatrox isn’t on the low ELO list is actually kind of like why GP isn’t. It’s not that people in low ELO can’t climb with him if they put in the time and 1 trick him.
- It’s just that his time investment to LP ratio is pretty bad. You could spend a lot of time to learn the micro behind Aatrox, then learn proper macro on him, then climb up slowly or you could just pick Malphite, hit R, and climb faster.
- Or, you could play against better players, even play versus some better Aatrox players, then learn from them see what they do and try out yourself. This second option will actually let you learn Aatrox faster and climb faster than if you mained him the whole time like in your current option.
- For example, Moriarty learned how to play Orianna after losing a bunch to Bjergsen, Jensen and even Faker’s Orianna. It meant that when he tried to pick her up he knew what she could do and what she should be doing so all he needed to do was practice execution rather than having to learn all that stuff on his own through repeatedly grinding games on her.
- This is the main premise behind not including Aatrox on the list along with his poor win rate of 48 percent across most brackets including Masters+ and Diamond.
4. “How does Shen get considered A tier when most of the S/A tier champs abuse him in lane?” – Tyleruntitled (Instagram)
- You’re completely right that he currently sucks in lane versus almost all the tier S tier champs and some of the A tier ones.
- This would of course matter more if he was a lane dominant champ to begin with which he isn’t. The reason he is winning despite poor matchups is his unique strength as a tank.
- He is the only tank top laner whose primary goal and specialty is to peel. This is particularly valuable in this meta as everyone is playing dive comps, but if Shen can peel properly and keep his Xayah or Jinx alive in a team fight, even if he down from lane phase, he will win that game. This is the real reason why he does well right now.
5. “Does Ryze really not fit anywhere on this list? I would of figured he’s at least B tier in high elo?” – Bakern4851 (Instagram)
- Ryze is in a pretty bad state at the moment. Since he lost his shield, people have struggled to position with his properly or even figure out what he should build.
- Should he go full AP? Some mana tank items? Go oldschool 3 ROAs? None of it really matters since he loses regardless of build.
- Jokes aside he is seeing some promise for high elo in top lane at the moment and has seen some competitive play in that role as well as mid. Is it enough for us to recommend him yet? Nope, not yet.
- We just don’t want to put him on the list yet until more people in high ELO start to play him. He is kind of like Leblanc, Lee Sin, or Thresh who are so popular in high ELO that if they are at all playable, everyone spams them regardless of stats.
- We are just waiting and scouting for that moment to happen before adding him to the list as that is the true test of his current power level.
Thanks for reading and watching! We’ll see you next time for Patch 9.17. As always, you can reach out to our team on Discord if you have any questions or feel free to leave a comment below.